CLOSET SWAP: The Inimitable Hawley Gould
On personal style, gender identity, and some really good suits.
Costume Change, we are BACK with maybe my favorite series I do for this newsletter—it’s time for a CLOSET SWAP.
For the new and uninitiated, CLOSET SWAP is a Costume Change series in which I ask a stylish friend of mine a bunch of nosy questions about their personal style, and we all benefit from their fashion (and life!) wisdom. This week, the closet we are digging into belongs to my fierce and fearless friend, actor Hawley Gould. We met working on SUFFS (more on that below), and in our rare moments of downtime, we love to talk shop. And by shop, I mean STYLE. I have known, pretty much since the inception of this newsletter, that I would one day be asking them to be a guest feature in Costume Change, and I am overjoyed that that time is now!
SO, pressie for you, CC—our deep dive on: creative self-expression! Suiting! Gender identity and how it relates to the clothes we wear! And so many of the other personal things that make up PERSONAL STYLE. As the biggest bonus, Hawley is just so deeply good, y’all, down to their core, and that goodness is shining all the way through our convo below. I can’t wait for you to read it! We went *all the way in*, so you know Substack is yelling “post too long for email” at me again. Click that “View In Browser” button and get cozy, CC! Lezzdoit.
Hawley! It’s been on my Costume Change wish list to have you as a CLOSET SWAP guest basically since I started this newsletter. And we’re finally doing it! Dreamy! Will you give the good readers a quick intro to the wonderful world of you? (Anything you want to plug that you are working on or thinking about?)
WHAT IS UP! Oh this is truly thrilling—I am over the moon. Dreamy x a million.
Hi Costume Change readers, I’m Hawley. I’m an NYC transplant—10 years this fall!—via a sleepy SoCal surf town that I happily left behind for life at a faster tempo. Which is actually something I think a lot about—tempos and timing and time in general. [Book recs for interested parties: How to Do Nothing by Jenny Odell and 4000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman.]
I am an actor, a writer of words and music, an aspiring director, a collage artist, a proud tattooed person (let your body be the canvas), and, as evidenced by the above recommendations, I am a huge book nerd. Big ol’ nerd in general.
Currently, I am working on Suffs, as the Alice Paul Alternate and the Dance Captain (PHEW), and balancing a few writing projects that are still under-wraps!!! Secrets!!! Wee!!! Follow me on IG (@hawleygould) to know more!! I’m sometimes there, sometimes not!!
YES, they said the Dance Captain and the Alternate for the LEAD. Just had to shout that out one more time, so the people know they heard you correctly. Alrightyyyyyy! Mandatory CLOSET SWAP ask: in a sentence or two, loosely describe the aesthetic of your day-to-day personal style (right now—style is transient!).
Yancy, as you know, this collab with Costume Change comes at a really great time for me cause I am deep into a project to actually IDENTIFY my personal style. This is a journey I’ve been on for a long time—and it is always evolving. But here’s where we are right now:
My casual day-to-day style is a venn diagram between two styles (masc/femme) that I call “Colorful City Center” & “Vintage Cutie Pie.”
On the one hand, loose and sporty ‘90s—typically a big top/big pants silhouette. (The tool bag is genuine; I was on my way to help a friend move lol.)
On the other, bright and patterned ‘60s/‘70s—more likely to be a tiny top/tiny pants silhouette.
Werk. Follow-up question: how did you come to that description/find that current sweet spot in your personal style?
I have always consumed a great deal of style content. Even as a wee one, I was tacking up Teen Vogue pages on the walls and digging through archive fashion books at the Barnes & Noble (Alexander McQueen, you hold such a special place in my heart). I took a costume history class in college that unlocked this love even further! It’s visual research! Now this style content frequently comes in the form of SUBSTACKS (I’m obsessed!!!!! Such thoughtful personal imperfect writing happening here—truly a haven).
Percia Verlin on YouTube has been CRUCIAL to my recent style project—I love her video about creating a Style Grid (I have my own)!!! YouTube is also where many fine fashionable folks introduced me to the rule of thirds, the big/tiny top/bottoms silhouette formulas, and color/pattern matching.
My sweet spot, IMO, is still in the distance! Or maybe I should say the “sweetest” spot—as you so aptly note: style is transient! It has taken quite a bit of outside-in work to get to the point of feeling comfortable in my style, and I’m really relishing in flipping my aesthetic inside-out and poking at all the squishy insides to identify my underlying values.
Do you feel like your style has evolved a lot over, say, the last 10 years? Or is there a clear through line? Has living in New York affected your personal style?
OK ok story time: I moved here in 2014 for college. I will bestow upon you A SINGLE collegiate photo (maybe two—I am working on loving baby Hawley). Baby Hawley thought they were a GIRL, they didn’t have a good grasp on STYLE, they were UNCOOL, bless them. They grew up in the age of Photo Booth and frizzy hair and no IG, so the monitoring of self-perception was just so different. And they wore a full underwire bra with every single leotard. Gender dysphoria is real.
Only a single piece still exists from this time period: my trusty gray Strand “Get Lit” baseball cap (see 2nd photo). It was a cringe-y time.
It wasn’t until 2020, when I finally came out as non-binary (for the third time—it takes how long it takes! Be true to you!) and started grappling with stepping into my fullest self that my style started to solidify in a way where I can see my current self in that human. There is just nothing that can replicate the kind of confidence that inflates your chest when you are getting dressed and really seeing yourself and feeling comfortable in your own body <3
NYC is its own kind of style education. People-watching here is a TREAT. It’s honestly better than Pinterest. Sometimes you'll see someone and appreciate what they’re wearing while knowing it’s not for you; sometimes you will see someone and want to emulate everything about them. This happens to me DAILY.
I did once *ahem* follow a very stylish fellow into the Goodwill on 8th (RIP!!), and you can bet when he picked up this gorgeous beige check trench and then promptly put it back, I snatched it up so fast. Probably the first piece that I really was like, “OHhhh this is me.”
You’re an actor! Does that factor into your wardrobe at all? Do you ever intentionally dress like a character?
Yancy, you are asking all the questions I am asking myself these days!! I used to dress like a character a LOT—again, I was trying to figure out my sense of self. Playing dress up is such a good way to play with self-expression, particularly with gender as a lens!
After my first Broadway gig ended in 2019, I worked at Screaming Mimi’s on 14th Street. I distinctly remember putting myself together every morning to specifically cater to the vibe of the store. Lots of vintage skirts and dresses, big earrings, super femme hair styles. I was still VERY girl, so.
Flash-forward to 2024. On the Notes App note (classic) where I’m doing all my current style noodling, my #1 style value is “Euphoria”—*not* the TV show. I want to look like myself, feel like myself, be enthralled and enthused by my expression of self through my clothes every day. I have literally written: “the role of Hawley is satisfying enough on its own.” YUM.
(That being said, I do love a theme, and sometimes will intentionally dress towards a kind of aesthetic or character—but still from inside my own lens. Does that make any sense???)
It makes perfect sense. It’s a character, but it’s also still YOU, deep in there.
I feel like we as a city are really evolving away from assigning gender to articles of clothing (bless! finally!), but it’s still a work in progress. Are there any pieces that you feel like you can’t or don’t want to wear because of their perceived gender coding?
Oh 4 sureeee. I really struggle with maxi skirts or body-con dresses. Mostly, I just don’t like how they look on me (I’m petite, therefore easily swamped), but it’s also true that I can’t completely separate that subjective sensation of dislike for me personally from how objectively gendered these pieces are in my head.
Like, the white long maxi skirt trend this summer is so cute for manyyyy folks—but I could literally never purchase into this trend. And that’s okay. Recognizing that is, I think, half the battle! Not every trend or style is meant for us! And this prevents us from making FOMO purchases we will later regret! Overconsumption is a scourge!
Speaking of the skirt of the summer (lol)—let’s talk summer style. I feel like people sometimes struggle with their summer looks, because the heat forces so much simplicity in the pieces you throw on, while the ability to layer in cooler months naturally adds texture/visual interest etc. to a look. But you always successfully incorporate so much texture and good contrast into your fits! Essentially, you always look good and you always look like YOU. Will you talk a little bit about your approach to getting dressed in the summer, and how you keep it interesting?
OOF. Especially in the city where we’re navigating moving from hot to cold in rapid succession. I hate that.
Summer is a great time to play with your accessory game: what’s the hat option, what’s the earring, maybe some necklaces? Sunglasses are a must! Stack of bracelets? A little vintage scarf moment for either the head or the bag!?! An anklet?? Who can resist!!
No matter what the season, I *TRY* to start with a single piece and build the outfit around it. This was a game night outfit! I knew I wanted to wear the shorts, cause the details are so fun. The rest is just trial and error—tube top and ballet flats with lots of necklaces for some vintage cutie pie? (Cutie glasses from THEE Chessa Metz.) Or maybe Uniqlo polo shirt with baseball cap?
The final outfit: tube top, fewer necklaces, baseball cap, swap for aviators:
And then, you know, you think you nail the look, and then you take a peek later in the window of a shop you’re passing (we all do it, be real), and you think “oh I should’ve stuck with the ballet flats” or “I should have swapped the earrings for little hoops.” Live, learn, try again another day.
BONUS ACCESSORY: Ink! I absolutely adore my tattoos, and they are such a great accessory in the warmer months! Pulls every outfit together in my opinion (though I know it’s not for everyone)!
Friend, I think it’s sort of genius that you’re shouting out that sometimes we get it wrong (although I love this final look!). But I think maybe we don’t collectively talk about that enough—the outfits we almost got right. It happens to errybody!
Anywayyyyys. You and I were just talking about seasonal dressing and COLOR PALETTES, an area I personally love to nerd out about. Would you share a little bit about your recent closet investigations/discoveries? Lol?
Recently I’m definitely resonating most with figuring out what it is about your style that feels uniquely YOU. I love that my style is quirky, a bit weird, eclectic, and fluctuating with my experience of my own self. I don’t love trends (though it can be fun to dip your toe in—maybe try first with stuff you already have in your own closet???)
I’m in a phase right now of closet purging—using a system/idea that you and I were literally just discussing, where you pull your regular pieces out and then assess what is left. So many things collect over the years, it’s easy to stuff them in the back of the closet and forget about them. I like to think that this is a perk of sharing a 300 square foot studio with your partner: no space for that kind of hoarding (though I do my best lol).
We did add an extra closet rod up at the top of our very tall closet which we use for seasonal/formal storage, and for vintage pieces that I refuse to part with. But part of the joy of identifying my personal style is letting go of the past person and getting incredibly specific about the kinds of things I *actually* wear.
I let myself be in process in regard to this! It’s not going to happen overnight! I am now keeping a running “purgatory” list—things that haven’t been worn in a while that I still have feelings about donating/selling/giving away. That way I know what I’m waffling on and can be intentional about trying to build outfits using said pieces, or I can find a way to release them with joy.
Is there any one (or two or three!) piece(s) that you find yourself gravitating towards again and again, no matter the time of year? Anything you never leave the house without?
All of these pieces already appear above (true staples) so scroll up to find!!
My Carhartt overalls. They’re tough for the hottest-hot of summer, but every other time of year, I’m in them! Overalls and jumpsuits are such a gender euphoric piece of clothing for me!!! I try to devoutly practice onesie Wednesday (and you can too)!!!
Aforementioned beige check coat :) my baby my baby my baby.
Anything striped—it’s my go-to pattern and has been as long as I can remember. Right now, we’re exploring this as VERTICAL stripes OOH!
I never leave the house without my they/them necklace and Grandma Rose’s watch <3. My partner Conor gave me a pair of new necklaces for my birthday this year, and DK (shoutout D’Kaylah Unique Whitley!!!!) got me the most amazing They charm necklace at the clurb literally last week. I feel so seen and loved :)
We just got out of a busy awards season that begged for a lot of formalwear. And your suit game, if I may, was UNPARALLELED. Any hacks/tips for getting dressed up but not losing your personality/sense of style?
YOU FLATTER ME! My Broadway debut opening night ‘fit for The Ferryman was *also* a suit—my first ever suit actually: navy with gold leopard print from Scotch & Soda—so it felt really excellent to return to that style for Suffs (following a decidedly femme Camelot opening night fit—stalk the IG if you want to seeeee).
The first public event I did for Suffs was actually for the Entertainment Community Fund Gala performance (peep the Hawley/Yancy pic!!!!). I wore this killer navy three-piece suit that has buttons ALL the way down the legs.
My Suffs opening night suit is by Colm Dillane aka KIDSUPER, who just showed an absolutely incredible collection at Paris Fashion Week. I really loved that it’s on theme for the colors of the suffrage movement!!!
Can we get honest, Yancy? I felt super self-conscious in the immediate days before we got to the big day: about wearing a men’s suit for a show that righteously touts its femininity, the feeling of the oversized silhouette itself, about how to accessorize in a way that felt comfy but not overpowering...
But I do think, at the end of the day, I pulled it off!!!! The white boots add necessary height to prevent the pants from pooling at the ankles, and the accessories are aggressive in the best way! Also HUGE shoutout to the iconic Jenny Anderson who gave us our SECOND Hawley/Yancy pic of the season!
Then I stumbled into two *totally secondhand* suiting looks: this major purple plaid blazer from Crossroads on 13th Street, a pair of leather pants, and patent leather booties for the WP Theater Gala:
…and a feather trimmed blazer from Beacon’s Closet in the West Village, with CUTIE gold button sailor shorts (a new summer staple), plus Calvin Klein loafers from Depop for our Tonys party (peep Suffs’ HEESUN HWANG, an ICON):
Hawley. Seeing this lineup again! I have stars in my eyes! Any final tips for Costume Change readers who are suit-curious?
The trick with suiting IMO is being okay with rocking a different silhouette than you’re used to—shoulder pads, oversized, double-breasted, etc.
Formal clothes evoke distinctly different body sensations than casual clothes. They are so much more reminiscent of a time when this kind of clothing was commonplace. What we definitely are trying to *avoid* is constriction in uncomfortable ways. You always want to be able to cross your arms in the jacket, and be able to sit comfortably in the trousers! Tailoring is a very good friend in this instance! I definitely am also always seeking suits with INTEREST—buttons, embroidery, mixed materials, a bit of sparkle or volume. Gimme a detail that the fashion fella in me can sink their teeth into!
[Ed note!: For interested parties (me!), here is lil YouTube gift from Hawley on styling/wearing your formal wear more often.]
We love! Love love love. Okay. Any last words to leave the people with? Style inspiration? A trend you’re loving right now? Regular inspiration? Movie recs? Lol?
Challengers is the movie of the summer. I don’t care that it came out in April. The soundtrack by Trent Reznor and the costumes by JW Anderson are impeccable. Tennis—always a hot fashion inspiration, particularly for summer. Such a wealth of visual imagery! If you loved Challengers, check out the 1982 doc The French—you will not be disappointed!!!
The New York Times just put out a list of 57 sandwiches that define New York City—let this be the summer we eat through the entirety of it. I’ve already eaten one (C&B Chorizo, YUM) and hope to follow up with my second ASAP.
If you haven’t read The Overstory by Richard Powers, please let this be your sign. You will not regret it. In fact, I can almost guarantee that you will be expressly and chemically changed.
PLEASE double check your voter registration! Do you know where your polling place is??? Or how to get an absentee ballot if you need??? Volunteer, phone bank, research your local candidates, become a poll worker! Vote in November!!!!!!!!!!
The true last words are this:
Present-tense-ness is a prerequisite for fun.
There is simply nobody better to be than yourself.
The rest is still unwritten.
Cheers, homies. ✌️
Obsessed with you. THANK YOU.
Costume Change, can you believe all the gifts we have just received?! Gosssshhhhhh I am just so grateful to Hawley for sharing so much goodness with us, and I hope you enjoyed! Again, to peep what Hawley is up to these days, you can find them on IG @hawleygould—I’m sure that adventure is only just getting STARTED.
And that’s our Monday CC! If you enjoyed this CLOSET SWAP, and want to see some more of my style snooping, check out past issues here, here, and here—they’re all so different (and all so good)! Happy reading, and I’ll see you next week. <3
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Costume Change is a styling newsletter (vs. a shopping newsletter). There’s no spon-con in the above convo. Thanks for reading, and reminder to keep those comments kind!
WEEEEEEE!!! THANKS FOR HAVING ME YANCY!!!!